I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.

I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously Xbase++ 
is one that I'm considering.

One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us and if 
I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. i.e. force 
me into a direction I may not want to go.

Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going to be 
office based.

In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?

Jeremy

Jeremy,

I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact of 
life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than others 
but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) another 
job using xbase languages.


Mike

Jeremy Suiter wrote:
> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
> scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
> 
> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously Xbase++ 
> is one that I'm considering.
> 
> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us and if 
> I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. i.e. force 
> me into a direction I may not want to go.
> 
> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going to be 
> office based.
> 
> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
> 
> Jeremy 
> 
>

Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform for my 
project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't afford to 
spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.

I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a couple of 
them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ and figured it'd 
be too much like hard work.

Jeremy

"Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
> Jeremy,
>
> I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact of 
> life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than others 
> but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) another job 
> using xbase languages.
>
>
> Mike
>
> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
>> scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
>>
>> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously 
>> Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>
>> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
>> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us and 
>> if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. i.e. 
>> force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>
>> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going to 
>> be office based.
>>
>> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>
>> Jeremy

Jeremy,

I think that the best you'd find is a Clipper programmer that also has 
esperience with object-oriented languages and let them learn quick.

But then again, I was at the dog park a couple days ago and I was 
wearing my Xbase++ devcon t-shirt and another guy there came up and 
said, "Oh, you're a database programmer" and he knew what Xbase++ was. 
So you never know.

-Brent



Jeremy Suiter wrote:
> Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform for my 
> project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't afford to 
> spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.
> 
> I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a couple of 
> them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ and figured it'd 
> be too much like hard work.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
> 
>>Jeremy,
>>
>>I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact of 
>>life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than others 
>>but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) another job 
>>using xbase languages.
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>
>>>I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
>>>scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
>>>
>>>I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously 
>>>Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>>
>>>One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
>>>especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us and 
>>>if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. i.e. 
>>>force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>>
>>>Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going to 
>>>be office based.
>>>
>>>In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>>
>>>Jeremy 
> 
> 
>

I agree. Looking for clipper/dbase/foxpro programmers. They are around.

Mike

Brent Dubs wrote:
> Jeremy,
> 
> I think that the best you'd find is a Clipper programmer that also has 
> esperience with object-oriented languages and let them learn quick.
> 
> But then again, I was at the dog park a couple days ago and I was 
> wearing my Xbase++ devcon t-shirt and another guy there came up and 
> said, "Oh, you're a database programmer" and he knew what Xbase++ was. 
> So you never know.
> 
> -Brent
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
> 
>> Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform 
>> for my project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't 
>> afford to spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.
>>
>> I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a 
>> couple of them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ 
>> and figured it'd be too much like hard work.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
>>
>>> Jeremy,
>>>
>>> I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact 
>>> of life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than 
>>> others but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) 
>>> another job using xbase languages.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite 
>>>> from scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to 
>>>> complete it.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously 
>>>> Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>>>
>>>> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
>>>> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us 
>>>> and if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to 
>>>> use. i.e. force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>>>
>>>> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are 
>>>> going to be office based.
>>>>
>>>> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

It's an option, but I don't really have the time to let them learn or teach 
them myself.  I really need them to hit the ground running.

I'll just have to wait and see who's available.

Jeremy

"Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:PBq197DbFHA.1256@S15147418...
>I agree. Looking for clipper/dbase/foxpro programmers. They are around.
>
> Mike
>
> Brent Dubs wrote:
>> Jeremy,
>>
>> I think that the best you'd find is a Clipper programmer that also has 
>> esperience with object-oriented languages and let them learn quick.
>>
>> But then again, I was at the dog park a couple days ago and I was wearing 
>> my Xbase++ devcon t-shirt and another guy there came up and said, "Oh, 
>> you're a database programmer" and he knew what Xbase++ was. So you never 
>> know.
>>
>> -Brent
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform for 
>>> my project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't afford 
>>> to spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.
>>>
>>> I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a couple 
>>> of them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ and 
>>> figured it'd be too much like hard work.
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>>> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>> news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
>>>
>>>> Jeremy,
>>>>
>>>> I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact of 
>>>> life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than 
>>>> others but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) 
>>>> another job using xbase languages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
>>>>> scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously 
>>>>> Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
>>>>> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us 
>>>>> and if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. 
>>>>> i.e. force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going 
>>>>> to be office based.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Jeremy,

My experience is that it takes a programmer very little time to get to know
Xbase++ and to be productive. I've trained several people, none of them
failed to become productive although some will always be better than
others. The last trainee was a 17 year old IT student who managed to learn
Xbase++, our methods of programming, the XBtoNet library AND did some
research for us, all in 3 weeks flat. The problem (for me anyway) is to
find a good programmer. If you have one, he'll learn to use Xbase++ very
quickly.
Anyway, the producivity is mostly determined by the software design, not by
the coding. If you want to save programmer's time, take a hard look at that
part.

Regards,
Jan Groenestein


Op Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:37:27 +0100 schreef Jeremy Suiter:

> It's an option, but I don't really have the time to let them learn or teach 
> them myself.  I really need them to hit the ground running.
> 
> I'll just have to wait and see who's available.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:PBq197DbFHA.1256@S15147418...
>>I agree. Looking for clipper/dbase/foxpro programmers. They are around.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Brent Dubs wrote:
>>> Jeremy,
>>>
>>> I think that the best you'd find is a Clipper programmer that also has 
>>> esperience with object-oriented languages and let them learn quick.
>>>
>>> But then again, I was at the dog park a couple days ago and I was wearing 
>>> my Xbase++ devcon t-shirt and another guy there came up and said, "Oh, 
>>> you're a database programmer" and he knew what Xbase++ was. So you never 
>>> know.
>>>
>>> -Brent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform for 
>>>> my project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't afford 
>>>> to spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.
>>>>
>>>> I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a couple 
>>>> of them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ and 
>>>> figured it'd be too much like hard work.
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>>> news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact of 
>>>>> life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than 
>>>>> others but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time) 
>>>>> another job using xbase languages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite from 
>>>>>> scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously 
>>>>>> Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers 
>>>>>> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us 
>>>>>> and if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to use. 
>>>>>> i.e. force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are going 
>>>>>> to be office based.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

Jan Groenestein <jg@gbgroen.nl> wrote in
news:1l0zmk2aqlu58$.1p4z6ydn5ujg8.dlg@40tude.net: 

> My experience is that it takes a programmer very little time to get to
> know Xbase++ and to be productive. I've trained several people, none
> of them failed to become productive although some will always be
> better than others. The last trainee was a 17 year old IT student who
> managed to learn Xbase++, our methods of programming, the XBtoNet
> library AND did some research for us, all in 3 weeks flat. The problem
> (for me anyway) is to find a good programmer. If you have one, he'll
> learn to use Xbase++ very quickly.
> Anyway, the producivity is mostly determined by the software design,
> not by the coding. If you want to save programmer's time, take a hard
> look at that part.

I concur!

The difficulty is not finding an "Xbase++" programmer, but rather a "good" 
programmer. Any "good" programmer will become productive with Xbase++ very 
quickly. 

Best regards,
Boris Borzic

http://www.Xb2.NET
http://www.SQLExpress.net
industrial strength Xbase++ development tools

Amen cant disagree. However for Xbase++ a harcore C++ programmer is better
(IMO) choice then Clipper background programmer.

Anand

NB: For outsourcing any project, drop an email to me, will fwd to my boss,
RK to revert back.

"Boris Borzic" <ng-at-sqlexpress-dot-net> wrote in message
news:Xns966F87D09DA3BSQLExpress@217.160.95.134...
> Jan Groenestein <jg@gbgroen.nl> wrote in
> news:1l0zmk2aqlu58$.1p4z6ydn5ujg8.dlg@40tude.net:
>
> > My experience is that it takes a programmer very little time to get to
> > know Xbase++ and to be productive. I've trained several people, none
> > of them failed to become productive although some will always be
<snip>

I agree with the design approach 100%, if you don't take the right one it'll 
all end in tears!

Where do find your 17 year old trainees, at the end of a rainbow?  I've 
never been able to find anyone that talented at that age!  Sounds like 
you've found a goldmine and keping it secret 

One of my problems is the timescale I'm running to.  I've been given 18 
months to get the bulk of the project done which isn't much time.

Jeremy



"Jan Groenestein" <jg@gbgroen.nl> wrote in message 
news:1l0zmk2aqlu58$.1p4z6ydn5ujg8.dlg@40tude.net...
> Jeremy,
>
> My experience is that it takes a programmer very little time to get to 
> know
> Xbase++ and to be productive. I've trained several people, none of them
> failed to become productive although some will always be better than
> others. The last trainee was a 17 year old IT student who managed to learn
> Xbase++, our methods of programming, the XBtoNet library AND did some
> research for us, all in 3 weeks flat. The problem (for me anyway) is to
> find a good programmer. If you have one, he'll learn to use Xbase++ very
> quickly.
> Anyway, the producivity is mostly determined by the software design, not 
> by
> the coding. If you want to save programmer's time, take a hard look at 
> that
> part.
>
> Regards,
> Jan Groenestein
>
>
> Op Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:37:27 +0100 schreef Jeremy Suiter:
>
>> It's an option, but I don't really have the time to let them learn or 
>> teach
>> them myself.  I really need them to hit the ground running.
>>
>> I'll just have to wait and see who's available.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:PBq197DbFHA.1256@S15147418...
>>>I agree. Looking for clipper/dbase/foxpro programmers. They are around.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Brent Dubs wrote:
>>>> Jeremy,
>>>>
>>>> I think that the best you'd find is a Clipper programmer that also has
>>>> esperience with object-oriented languages and let them learn quick.
>>>>
>>>> But then again, I was at the dog park a couple days ago and I was 
>>>> wearing
>>>> my Xbase++ devcon t-shirt and another guy there came up and said, "Oh,
>>>> you're a database programmer" and he knew what Xbase++ was. So you 
>>>> never
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>> -Brent
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Totally agree. I know that Xbase++ is a viable development platform 
>>>>> for
>>>>> my project, but if I can't find programmers I'm stuffed.  I can't 
>>>>> afford
>>>>> to spend 3 months not succeeding to find anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've spoken to a some employment agencies about recruiting and a 
>>>>> couple
>>>>> of them refused to help because they've never heard of Xbase++ and
>>>>> figured it'd be too much like hard work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike Grace" <mikeg@computastat-group.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:M3NHUaDbFHA.6152@S15147418...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeremy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am leaving the xbase world. At least professionally. It is a fact 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> life. The question is not whether xbase languages are better than
>>>>>> others but a hard commercial reality. I could not find (at the time)
>>>>>> another job using xbase languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeremy Suiter wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've got an upcoming project to write a whole new software suite 
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> scratch that will require me to hire two programmers to complete it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't chosen which tools to write the program in and obviously
>>>>>>> Xbase++ is one that I'm considering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my main concerns is the availability of Xbase++ programmers
>>>>>>> especially in the UK.  I get the feeling there's not too many of us
>>>>>>> and if I'm right then it will affect my decision of what tools to 
>>>>>>> use.
>>>>>>> i.e. force me into a direction I may not want to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remote working is out of the question on this one, the jobs are 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be office based.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other peoples experience am I being paranoid?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>

Jeremy,

> It's an option, but I don't really have the time to let them learn or teach 
> them myself.  I really need them to hit the ground running.

We have a similar problem here.  We want someone full time, to be local
(hey, in this context does that mean the programmer will be STATIC? ),
and to be able to work unsupervised.

Since we are not in a cosmopolitan area, we were unable to find anyone
after over a year searching.

We intend to take on a bright local youngster and train them up - either a
school-leaver or a college grad.  The first thing is to teach the basics of
programming (if necessary), then Xbase++, then IPC and internet
technologies, then some fun stuff with XbHAL.  Finally, teach the
architecture of the various systems I have developed over the last 3 years.

It will take all of my time to train this person to the point where they
can begin to walk on their own - and unfortunately I am just too busy to
even think of taking a month or so away from a very packed schedule.
Consequently, we are not looking for anyone - we want them very badly, but
just don't have the time to spare.  The danger here is that as our systems
grow, even while the scheduled project development list begins to shrink
(although even that might not be the case!), the time spent on day-to-day
and ad-hoc maintenance also increases.  There will certainly be a point
where maintenance will consume so much time that new development will be
impossible - as will spending time to train someone.

Regards,

Phil Ide

***************************************
* Xbase++ FAQ, Libraries and Sources: *
* goto: http://www.idep.org.uk/xbase  *
***************************************

After your lover has gone you will still have PEANUT BUTTER!

Hi Phil, Jeremy,

Pitty that you need a programmer only localy, i am available to 
participate in xBase++ projects, but i can work only remote, at least 
for now.

I have been using xBase++ for 1 1/2 year now, and all this time i have 
spend a lot of time learning, and now i feel ready to start code for 
live projects.

Regards
Vagelis Skarmaliorakis
Athens Greece

Giassou Vangelis,

i've read your message and i'm interessted in your programming skills. What 
we need is a programmer with knowledge in xbase2net for some kind of remote 
web application. If you are interested and you think you can handle it we 
would like to know if you have free capacity. Then we have to talk about the 
payment completion.

Best regards,

Miro Martinidis
Herford Germany



"Vagelis Skarmaliorakis" <vagskarm@teledomenet.gr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:mhqJJwQbFHA.2944@S15147418...
> Hi Phil, Jeremy,
>
> Pitty that you need a programmer only localy, i am available to 
> participate in xBase++ projects, but i can work only remote, at least for 
> now.
>
> I have been using xBase++ for 1 1/2 year now, and all this time i have 
> spend a lot of time learning, and now i feel ready to start code for live 
> projects.
>
> Regards
> Vagelis Skarmaliorakis
> Athens Greece

Hi Miro,

Posted pm some details, is your mail active ?

Vagelis